Nerds On Tap

Tech Trails and Gator Tales with Jeff Deren

• Nerds On Tap • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Join us as we dive into the adventures of Jeff Deren: an Iowa native turned global traveler and ad tech guru. From captivating tales of his journeys across continents to the intricate world of online advertising with Assertive Yield, Jeff promises a whirlwind of insights and anecdotes. As we journey from the heart of ad tech intricacies to adrenaline-packed gator hunts in Florida and reflections on tech's evolution, prepare for a riveting and enlightening session with a true renaissance man. Cheers to tales, tech, and travels with Jeff on Nerds on Tap!

Check out Jeff's close encounter with a gator here!

Sponsors:
Digital Boardwalk Managed IT Services
Smarter Web

Special Guest:
Jeff Deren, SVP of Sales - North America, Assertive Yield

Beers in Order of Appearance:

  1. Oskar Blues Dale's Pale Ale
  2. Thin Man Brewery Pills Mafia
  3. Dog Fish SeaQuench Ale
  4. Victory Beer Golden Monkey

Mentions:

Other Mentions:

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Tim Shoop:

Nerds, nerds nerds, nerds, nerds on tap In. My apologies folks. Uh, we had some technical difficulties during the filming of this episode. There are audio fluctuations throughout this episode. It is not typical of a nerds on tap episode, as you can tell if you listen to episode one and two. Uh and uh. I'm hopeful that this will never happen again and my apologies to Jeff Daren um, that this episode turned out the way it did, but we did not want to go back into the studio because of schedule conflicts and the content in this episode is so good, I at least had to get it out to you.

Tim Shoop:

So here we go.

Tim Shoop:

Hey everyone, thanks for joining us at nerds on tap for episode three, where we introduce Jeff Daren to you. Jeff comes from a small town in Iowa and has journeyed the world in some great adventures on his big trip you get to learn how a small town Iowa boy travels abroad and ends up in the big tech space, specifically ad tech. You know those ads that you see that pop up in your news feeds in different places and you click and it takes you down a rabbit hole. That's all Jeff and his company assertive yield. Also, we're going to learn about Jeff's exploits as a gator hunter and we're going to be tasting some interesting brews today, including Dale's pale ale, pills, mafia sequence ale and the world famous golden monkey from victory brewing company. We have some stories to tell about that specific brew. So come join us.

Tim Shoop:

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nerds On Tap. I'm your host, Tim Shoop, and I couldn't be more excited to embark on this nerdy adventure with all of you. So grab your favorite brew, because things are about to get exciting. Three, two, one Go.

Tim Shoop:

Hey everyone, welcome to the third episode of Nerds On Tap. This episode is again sponsored by Digital Boardwalk and Smarter Web. Digital Boardwalk is a nationally recognized managed IT services provider, or MSP, headquartered right here in Pensacola.

Tim Shoop:

Florida, providing technology management for businesses across the United States, with a strict focus on cyber security and compliance. So you can check them out at go modern office. com. Also sponsored by Smarter Web and exclusive partner of Digital Boardwalk, providing data driven marketing solutions to businesses across the United States to drive more traffic and leads to their business. So check them out at smarter web. net.

Tim Shoop:

Today we'll be diving into the ever changing dynamic world of AdTech with today's guest, Mr. Jeff Deren. Jeff grew up in a small town in Iowa and graduated with a marketing and Spanish degree from University of Central Missouri. After school, he worked in IT staffing for four years, which is where when we met.

Tim Shoop:

I believe. before Before getting married and embarking on a two year backpacking trip through Central and South America and Southeast Asia. After returning from the big trip quote unquote he moved to Pensacola for a short time before deciding to pursue an entrepreneurial business development career helping tech startups scale, specifically in the ad tech space, for the last seven years. So Jeff and his wife Erin are now happily back in Pensacola with their two kids, and I am glad because he's been one of my longtime drinking companions. So it's good to have you back in town, Jeff, and it's good to have you here on Nerds On Tap. So welcome to the show.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, very happy to be back in Pensacola, and we were just talking before we started here that we need to have more beers together.

Tim Shoop:

It's been a little too long, so I'm glad to be here to help with you with that. Well, we're going to do that in a minute.

Tim Shoop:

He already tried to grab one earlier, but I said no, you gotta wait.

Tim Shoop:

You know it'll be queued up.

Tim Shoop:

So today we're going to follow the following topics. We're going to start out by looking at your Iowa roots to global routes. You get it Right Now as a poet, I didn't know it and your big adventure will dive into adtech world with Jeff and his company, Assertive Yield. Then we'll get the face behind the face, the man, the myth, the legend. In our third segment Gators, Fishing and Brews and, that said, I'm looking forward to that.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, just got back from a successful Gator hunt down in Gainesville. So happy to share that story and some others.

Tim Shoop:

I got to see a video and we'll hopefully share that out on social along with the release of this episode, so I'm looking forward to that. Then we'll go and reflect on the journey and forward insights of the world of ad tech. So very exciting stuff. And in between we'll be sampling some amazing brews today. I understand you like any pale ale, stowers pilsners. So I think we accommodated here to a degree. We went with some brews from North Carolina, new York, Delaware and Pennsylvania, and we'll finish the show by capping it off with some curated questions to ask Jeff and kind of dig into his brain a little bit. Sounds great. You watched episode one. How do we kick off these shows? You start drinking beer.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, right, are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready.

Tim Shoop:

Sun's taken away. Tell us about our first brew All right.

Jeff Deren:

Our first beer is the Oskar Blues Brewery in North Carolina, the Dale's Pale Ale. It's an American Pale Ale brewed with European malts and four kinds of American hops. Dale's Pale Ale delivers a blast of hops aromas, redolent of citrus and spice, complimented by toasty and sweet malts. This brew has a silky mouthfeel with lingering bitterness. 6.5% ABB.

Tim Shoop:

It's good, so what do you think Well, I've had this before, right? Yeah, I've had it.

Jeff Deren:

And you know what? I'd buy it Because I love the can. It's simple, it's old school, it's great, it's great.

Tim Shoop:

Kind of reminds me of, like you know, PBR, vr days, something like that A little bit more flair. I remember back in the 70s if you opened our refrigerator, there was always a half of a six pack of PBR that my dad would have in there. So definitely brings by some memories. I like the taste. What do you think about it, Tim?

Tim Schaffer:

I actually really like it, but I've had it before and I think it's a good beer yeah.

Tim Shoop:

Is it your go-to beer?

Tim Schaffer:

No, but my go-to is what we'll get to later All right.

Tim Shoop:

Is it the surprise beer today? Yes, no, okay, cool. So we are going to go from your Iowa roots to global routes. So let's dive into Jeff's upbringing and talk about, maybe, some of your college memories and kind of dig back into what brought you from Iowa to the rest of the world and introduced Jeff to everywhere in between.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, so I had amazing upbringing. My folks were awesome parents and I'm the youngest of four so I you know being the youngest was kind of learning from my siblings what not to do mostly, and also what to do, and really being in small town, iowa, there's not a lot going on, and so football and basketball really consumed my life for about the first 16 years. And then my junior year of high school, we took in a Brazilian exchange student and he and I became very, very close. I wasn't sure about him at first. He's kind of a chubbier guy, pimply face. I was like all right, what is this guy all about? Turns out the dude was like a black belt in jujitsu and could absolutely wail on me, nice. And so I found out the hard way not to mess with him. And then he and I snuck out one day as high schoolers do, and we knocked back a couple bush lights and this kid would bite open the can to shot gun beers and I was like, all right, this is the real deal.

Tim Schaffer:

And so he and I can't. He knows martial arts and he's pounding down brews. So unds like a dangerous man.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, no, he is a very dangerous man. Damus Josh and he's was his name. He's still in touch with them, great guy. But that kind of sparked my interest in the travel thing. So, finished high school, was committed to going to Central Missouri on scholarship to play basketball, and that was the plan. That's what happened. But prior to checking into Central Missouri, I went down to Brazil and stayed with Damus's family for a month and it was 30 days of having way too much fun on the Brazilian beaches. Changed your life, changed my life. Well, I got back.

Jeff Deren:

I was like all right, I'm, I'm going to study a foreign language, I want to study abroad, I want to do this travel thing. And so I got to Central Missouri and basketball kind of became a little bit less of a focus because I was still consumed with the travel thing. So it was fun playing basketball. I was a bench warmer for the most part, got some playing time here and there, kind of just a token three point shooter. We had some success, built some great friendships within the team and still in touch with a lot of those guys. The camaraderie was obviously, you know, the big highlight and lifelong friendships came of it.

Jeff Deren:

But after my sophomore year I did a internship in Monterey, Mexico, and for two months and lived with a family down there and again just continued to pour kerosene on my desire to travel and see the world. And then I finished my degree six months down at Costa Rica. And that's when I got exposed to kind of the budget travel scene and I had only had classes from Monday to Wednesday. So every Wednesday night or Thursday morning I'd take a bus to the beach you know whatever beach in Costa Rica and stay at a hostel and kind of do the that's all yeah A flanking the pan budget travel thing and the hostel living the people.

Tim Shoop:

How do we put us in the timeline here? I would have been 22, 22, 23.

Jeff Deren:

Perfect age to be doing that, yeah.

Tim Shoop:

We had. We shared similar stories, yeah, yeah. So I mean, I, back in the day, camped, traveled all the way out to not to Brazil or you know wherever, but moved to California with no destination. No, you know, no, no real thought of what was going to happen next In my mind.

Tim Shoop:

I remember my dad. I called him and he said what are you doing? What job you have lined up? He was all excited. I said no, I'm going out there to be an actor. And he goes what? You're going to be a bomb. And I remember that, like it was yesterday, he basically and I said, dad, I'm going to be the best damn bomb out there. I'll tell you right now, but I appreciate that. And years later, me and my dad were sitting out here, we event with all our customers out here, and he told me how proud he was of me. And I said, dad, none of this would ever happen if I didn't move to California. And it wasn't because I became some, you know, the next Brad Pitt, it was because I met other people that mentored me. So I have a feeling this journey with Jeff is going somewhere that's going to lead into those important mentorships.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, no, absolutely so. As I kind of wrapped up the Costa Rica and study abroad, that was my last semester of college altogether. So I was graduated, I got back and I told my parents I'm going to get a job because they, the only thing they bought me when I got back was a suit and I said you need to go find yourself a job. So I got the suit and started into IT staffing, worked with a company called Lotus. At the time they moved to Kansas City. Kansas City is a great city and loved it there.

Jeff Deren:

Still was not a fan of the winters and still had that itch to travel. So ended up meeting my wife and she uh, she hung out with me for a couple of weeks but I was living in kind of a dumpy apartment. I had bought a Lincoln Brown, Lincoln continental from a funeral home and I had a twin bed in about two weeks into us dating and she goes you've got a horrible apartment, you drive an old man's car and you have one bed. She goes. I don't think you're the type of guy I'm looking for and I said well, this is all because I'm going to sell all this stuff and I'm going to go travel.

Jeff Deren:

And she's like, well, even worse. And so I was like, all right, so be it. And then a couple of weeks later she came. She came back, she said, maybe, let's give this a shot. So, okay, let's go to do that. Let's go to Costa Rica, let's do the budget travel thing together, let's see if you actually want to take this trip with me. And if you do, then we can, you know, really get serious with things. And so she went, we brought some friends, we brought her friends, my friends. She was by far the easiest one. My friends were just a total nightmare. Her friends were, you know, a little more high maintenance, and so if she got back and she was like, I want to take another trip, but also we need to get married, done, let's do it. So we got married, sold off her stuff, and then we got a one-way trip. So we need to get married.

Tim Shoop:

So she wasn't going to go and I was just like I am not getting rid of all my stuff.

Jeff Deren:

I've been getting rid of all my stuff for the first four of a guy, because we don't need to date at that point for about 10 months or so, and I was like that's fine, you're my type of gal.

Tim Shoop:

So me and Kathleen, when she lived in Nashville and I was down here and when I told her, hey, move down to Pensacola. And she says I can't do that unless we're married. My dad won't approve. We had that conversation the other day and she goes it worked, it worked. It did it worked for Erin too.

Tim Schaffer:

That's right, but how you're going to get to know somebody pretty well, you're going to Costa Rica together. Yeah, you really get to know someone.

Jeff Deren:

You know, I recommend that for any married couple. Take an extended honeymoon, because that will really you know every part of that person when you're living in hostels and on a $15 a day budget, pinching pennies, taking chicken buses and stuff.

Tim Shoop:

Now is she the baby of the family? Is she the only? Okay yeah, so whole different minds that my wife was the oldest of three. I was the youngest of six, so I'm like the big kid in the house and you know I try to get my kids to call me daddy fun bags. They won't do it.

Tim Schaffer:

So my big bombshell - there's ten of us, right? Two different dads, same mom though, and she had all 10. So me, growing up it was it literally was like watching one of the cheaper by the dozen movie or something I have no idea. Yeah, it's, it was. It wasn't saying what 24, 7. I mean 10 o'clock at night. There's at least one kid doing something you shouldn't be doing. You know what I mean. Yeah, it's 10 of us. So what are you going to do, are you like a really fast eater now?

Jeff Deren:

Oh yeah.

Tim Schaffer:

So are we fine? Now I still eating like I'm like starving on some deserted island. Yeah, that's just funny.

Tim Shoop:

I learned how to eat fast in the navy and they teach you how to eat in five minutes. And now it's like oh, and my wife always picks on me because I eat too fast. But I said that's me, it's just going to be so. Anyway, Jeff, continue on. I want to hear you know. Let's see again.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah. So after the wedding we one way ticket into Nicaragua and we started our adventure there. We were kind of doing some volunteer work along the way to be able to stay at these hostels and not have to pay for our housing, because we had about 25 grand saved up and we're trying to stretch this as far as we can make it. And the original intent was just to stay in Latin America. But as we moved through Central America we kept meeting all these other travelers, most of them European and Israeli. They would tell us hey, if you got the chance, you need to get over to Southeast Asia. It's unreal.

Jeff Deren:

So we were in Panama and we just on a whim, we're like you know what, let's just buy a ticket from Peru to Vietnam. So we bought that ticket and adjusted our plans accordingly and we sailed, because the Darien Gap, from Panama to Colombia, you can't take the land like go via land, so you have to fly or sail. So we got on. This German guy's, catamaran, did a three or four day sailing trip to Cartagena Holy moly, yeah, it was beautiful Went to the San Blas Islands, stayed there for a couple of nights and then about a day and a half on the open water. Poland to Cartagena. Cartagena is a beautiful city. Then we spent a couple of months in Colombia, a few weeks in Ecuador and then about a month in Peru.

Tim Shoop:

So I'm here and hearing all these names, these countries and these places, and all I hear is oh yeah, that's safety. Oh, you know what? You know when you're young we're invincible, right yeah, now I'm all about. Oh God, I can't be in that room.

Jeff Deren:

I breathe a germ.

Tim Shoop:

But you know what was the, what was the? Were the precautions, or did you were even worried about that? What about your parents?

Jeff Deren:

Did they? Oh, I'm sure my parents and Erin's parents were both freaking out, especially Colombia, because Colombia is going in the 90s Post Escobar is like the murder capital. Yeah so, but really Colombia was one of the most beautiful, pristine, clean countries in Latin America that we went to.

Jeff Deren:

There was crime in like in the cities, but it's really no different than the US. It's a lot of petty crime. You know you leave something. You know leave a computer on a table and walk away for 30 minutes. It's probably not going to be there when we get back.

Jeff Deren:

We heard of some people getting held up at gunpoint or knife point here and there, but it was pretty rare. Nothing ever happened to us. We just tried to stay with the group during the night time and during the daytime you know we're not walking in isolated streets or anything like that and you know, just keeping ourselves being smart, you know it's kind of common sense smarts and we didn't have any problems. So we actually really, really enjoyed Colombia and that was one of the places that we still talk about going back to. Oh, so yeah, it was a beautiful country. We were quite a surprise, but we had that concern and asked some other travelers that came from there and everybody was like you're going to love it, just go. Don't. Don't think about safety thing, just got to go. And they were right.

Tim Shoop:

So that's funny because when I was a kid, we traveled to Germany and we traveled I got to to travel with a ball team. I played baseball growing up all over Europe. Boy Scouts hiked across Spain, did all kinds of cool stuff. I remember I went to my mom this was back in the film roll days and she gave me three rolls of film and she said, okay, take some good pictures, Timmy and I think that was 12 or 13. We went to Spain. We hiked it was amazing Barcelona and all that I forget it was. I mean we hiked all across Spain and we went to a bullfight, and I passed my camera around to all my friends.

Tim Shoop:

We got back and mom was so excited to develop all the pictures and all three rolls were up the bullfight and she was so mad. She was like what in the world? But the beauty of it was I got to see Europe as a kid and it was something I still treasure today. I took my wife back in 2009. She had never been out of Texas and Connecticut and Tennessee and it was her first trip to Europe and it opened her eyes to what the world actually looks like outside of our country and since then we've traveled quite extensively, mostly in Europe and, quite honestly, the United States, because we always talk about all these countries and adventures and where we've gone.

Tim Shoop:

In other countries. But I just got back off a 35 day road trip in an RV all across the national parks in the United States and there's so much beauty right here in our backyard.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, it's unreal and every state kind of has its own unique thing and regionally there's a lot of culture within the US.

Tim Schaffer:

So yeah, there's not many countries to where, like what we go, a few hours over and all of a sudden you're in a completely different spirit.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, and one of your favorite cities, New Orleans, is also one of my favorite cities and that

Tim Shoop:

almost feels like you're in a different country Now, is it because of Bourbon Street or is it because of the just kind of the underworld?

Jeff Deren:

the darkness, the voodoo the music, the music of French history, the music of the 25th century.

Tim Shoop:

And Saints's. I go, Saints, Saints, I'm actually going to see here a couple weeks going to see and play the buccs. But yeah, I mean.

Jeff Deren:

New Orleans. I mean, I think it's one of the most unique and fun cities in the US. It is. It's something different, you know, and that's just. The proof is right there that you can travel around the US and get such diversity and culture and experiences from city to city.

Tim Shoop:

So the sad part is - A lot of people go there just to hit Bourbon Street and party. But in adventure, you know the garden, you know the garden districts, and even into the business districts. Mothers sits in the business district, you know there, yeah, yeah. Or the art, more of the artsy areas in the plantations that surround New Orleans that you can actually tour. There's some, I mean, but the food, the foods of it.

Tim Shoop:

We already lined up several restaurants while we're heading to this Saints game that we want to hit While we're down there, mothers is always on the list for lunch. You get the debris, yeah, yeah. So tell Suds about the debris, because we're actually eating that I turned them on and he gives us moose. What is that?

Jeff Deren:

So I've only eaten it once. But the debris is just basically all the scraps that kind of fall off as they're cut. Roast beef, roast beef and then it just all falls into the Au Jus container and it soaks the bun.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah, I mean it's totally saturated with this debris.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah, it's the most amazing sandwich in the world. It's incredible. What's that feature on? What was the feature on diners, drive ins and dives?

Jeff Deren:

It was definitely. It's definitely been on the food channel. I don't know which show, but yeah, that's.

Tim Schaffer:

Have y'all been to the Robson and Ruby Slicker one? I think we've been.

Tim Shoop:

Oh, yeah, oh thanks, yeah, suds have you been. So are you excited about going on? Mothers?

Jeff Deren:

Yes, I think that debris. There's a lot of options, but the debris is the one.

Tim Shoop:

He's a man of many words, so before we get into our second tasting, it looks like everybody finished their first brew. They were actually kind of weekly poured today Suds. They should have been to the rim. But let's talk about what brought you back, cause that's going to lead us into our second segment, which is diving into the ad world with Yield what brought you back, what brought you back here and what brought you back into tech?

Jeff Deren:

Yeah. So we came back. We were in Asia for about a year and came back and we were trying to figure out where exactly we wanted to land and we knew we didn't want it to be the Midwest. So we were just sick of the winter. Nothing against the Midwest. We love the Midwest and all the people there, but Aaron and I aren't really cold weather folks, and so she had. She actually had a half brother who lived in Pensacola for about 16 years. He had since moved up to Fairbanks, Alaska, the opposite side of the US, and I have a brother who was a naval aviator pilot actually flew with the Blue Angels so he was in Pensacola.

Jeff Deren:

So we were both familiar with it and we were looking at Florida, cause we love the beach and we both knew Pensacola. So we said all right, let's pack our stuff up, let's just drive to Pensacola and find a job. And so that's what we did.

Tim Shoop:

So for anybody who says not from Pensacola, I want to say I've been to most of the beaches in this world and Pensacola, sand and beach always drew me back. What say you?

Tim Schaffer:

Yeah, you've been a lot of beaches, so I've always thought the same. I was like man, this is one of the best, at least in the States, right, and I've been like Canada, england, whatever, but that's not really a good comparison point, but I would love to hear from you Now the phosphorus.

Tim Shoop:

they used to be in the sand pre many hurricanes. I know they had to bring in a lot of sand from elsewhere and redump it out here.

Tim Shoop:

There used to be all these I to come out to this beach. When I was younger, when I was a kid, I would travel down here because my sister lived down here and I would go out to the beach. There was no, it was just all 50 styles beach houses. You could drive out towards Navar and sit with a six pack of good brew, and all it was was sand dunes and there were phosphorus in the sand, so the moon would strike down on the sand and it would just glisten all the way down the whole ocean and that's. I do miss that, but talk about the beach for a minute.

Tim Schaffer:

Well, I just wanted to point there are spots where you can go. I can point you to them. Especially, go Pensacola beach. You know where. They have all the restaurants on the boardwalk right there. If you go to that sand it's all still up in there. Just so you know.

Tim Shoop:

Okay, yes, anyways, I don't go to that side, so I would know Anyway.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, no, I mean, from a beach standpoint kind of depends what you're looking for. Pensacola is actually, you know, obviously a world-class beach. It's out there when it comes to swimming and fishing and lounging and, you know, just enjoying the beach. Some of the Pacific beaches, when you go through Latin America, are really incredible, but they back up to mountains and rocks and there's great surf and then you find these little pockets, these bays that are flat and pristine, and so those are really neat. Some of those towns that we were in there was you know nothing, it's just like a dirt road and guys are still riding horses and horse carts and ox carts. That's awesome, it's just incredible, it's just touched. Yeah, so that from that standpoint those are really neat.

Jeff Deren:

And then Southeast Asia when you go down to, like, Bali and we're on the Gile Islands, in Lombok, which is the island east of Bali, I mean that's got like 100 foot clarity and water is just incredible and the reefs are incredible. But you know those are isolated still. Especially in Lombok it was still pretty isolated but it's quickly changing. I mean, Bali's just loaded with tourism and I've heard a lot of people complaining about no trash in the water and stuff like that, and that's one thing that I really like about Pensacola. It kind of takes pride in the cleanliness the, you know, tries to control the construction, Doesn't want it to be overcrowded, and I think that's really important, especially if you want to preserve.

Tim Shoop:

Well, it's a lot more crowded than it was when I was a kid, because you could go out there and you could look for miles. It wouldn't be a soul, and it's the tourists. Yeah, it's a spot, do they?

Jeff Deren:

cap the amount of like high rise development, though I've heard that Compared to what Panama City has done.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah, yes, but I worry that it's only a matter of time before Pensacola gets sucked into the outside development. But let's hope not, and I think Pensacola Beach Authority has has good control over that. I do know that, like when you buy a house to have there, you're actually leasing the land. I've heard that. So it's an interesting which is, you know, there's pros and cons, obviously for the homeowner. So that's not what today's segment is about. I don't want to get into it, but that's good for another show right there. So let's get back on track. Let's talk about some. Beach was one of the things. Beach heat to the things that brought you back down here family connections.

Jeff Deren:

And then just have to get up, get fortunate to land a good job with the system. And that was the job that I was working when, when we met, yeah, they were out of DC and top secret cleared company as a company and so they were helping staff a lot of the DoD and DHS projects and I really found that government contracting world fascinating and so that that spurred a lot of interest. But the entire time I was just as I was on the road, I've seen these, you know, digital nomads and people that were location independent and working for these tech startups. So I'm hearing about this and I thought, you know, I really want to do that and I've kind of had my fill of IT staffing. So I ended up getting a job offer with a group out of Cambridge Massachusetts, some guys from MIT and Harvard, and they were launching a travel doctor appointment setting platform similar to ZocDoc, but specifically for travelers, and they wanted me to go open up the Canadian market and I said yes.

Jeff Deren:

Once again, we quit the jobs. We sold the stuff, sold the stuff and I flew up to Montreal. I was there for about six weeks and launched that market and then went over to Vancouver. Erin met me in Vancouver. We were there for about six weeks and then there were like we're out of money, we've got a close up shop.

Tim Shoop:

Oh, my God, when you were. It is a little off subject, but when you were in Vancouver, did you stay in Vancouver? Did you venture over to the island, give sense in those areas, made it to?

Jeff Deren:

Vancouver Island Didn't do a ton of exploring. We did some hiking north of Vancouver and actually had some friends who taught with us in Thailand, who lived in Vancouver, and so we just walked into this whole group of friends. They took us around, showed us all over places. It was a lot of fun. So but that I don't regret it because you know, even though it was a short-lived state as my first run in the startup world, it got my foot in the door and then I got a job while I was in Vancouver to launch the state of Florida for a patient identification startup that's using biometrics to identify patients in hospitals, and I did took that job.

Jeff Deren:

We moved into St Petersburg, florida, and I've kind of fell into a big group of friends down there and ended up staying in St Petersburg for about six years until the kids came along and COVID hit and we didn't have any family or grandparents, support and Erin's parents that since moved to Pensacola. So we said, all right, well, maybe it's time to go back to Pensacola. We always knew we wanted to. We just wanted to wait till we had kids because we felt like Pensacola's the place to raise a family, and so that was a pretty easy decision. We sold the house in St Pete and came back here and I kind of skipped the part. We did move to Nicaragua for a year and then when I got back from Nicaragua we went back to St Pete and that's why I landed at the ad tech. So I fell into ad tech, started working with a company out of Sarasota called Renov Content and that's what launched the ad tech career and have loved the industry, loved the people in it. It's fascinating industry.

Tim Shoop:

So I'm excited to dive into that world. We've got to taste another beer before we get into that part. I am glad you're back and I know we've only hooked up once since you've been back.

Tim Shoop:

We had a beer together. I'd like to do it more, I, you know. The interesting thing that kept me from going out a lot was our kids were at that age. You know they were toddlers, you know on like kind of like what you're dealing with now. So I don't know how to get out. But ours are old enough now where they can stay home for short stints an hour or two hours. So I see a little bit of beer meetups in our near future, so I'm excited about that. Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff Deren:

And I apologize.

Tim Shoop:

I had to be more accessible, but I'm ready to, you know, get out there. You need to get me out to those Thursday Su ds, take it away. I want to hear about beer number two.

Jeff Deren:

All right, Beer number two. It's from the Thin Man Brewery in Buffalo, new York. It's a Pills Mafia. It combines German Pilsenball and traditional German hops in a crisp, easy drinking locker A traditional example of a drinkable beer that tastes like beer.

Jeff Deren:

That tastes like that. That is a very drinkable beer and it tastes like beer.

Tim Shoop:

So I would hate to drink a beer that doesn't taste like beer. We have a show coming up the Women in Tech and they want me to have wine on the show, and there's been a little bit of an argument about it, so I may have to find a beer that looks like wine and then tell them it's beer after worse, but you might be able to find it.

Jeff Deren:

You'll find like a porter or something, yeah.

Tim Shoop:

So we're going to hop into segment two and we're going to talk about Jeff's journey into the adtech space with Yield and what their role is in the base and how they've become a big player here. So, jeff, tell me about ad tech as a genre in the business world. Tell the audience about what ad tech is, what it means and how sort of yield has been a forward-thinking charger in that industry.

Jeff Deren:

Ad tech is kind of the sister of MarTech, Ad tech being advertising technology and MarTech being marketing technology. Ad tech, at least within my realm, deals more with editorial news sites. So you have anywhere from the Fox and CNNs to ESPN to Barstool Sports anybody that's creating content, putting it on a website and monetizing that website using programmatic ads and direct sales ads, enormous amount of technology on the back end of those websites and it's a fascinating ecosystem. That's completely blow by mind in terms of how complex the ecosystem is and how much technology is driving the monetization efforts for these websites.

Tim Shoop:

So this is different. Just to kind of clarify, this is different than just signing up with Google AdWords and having Google do some you know some ad campaigns on your behalf.

Tim Shoop:

that's all automated, is it? What are the similarities?

Tim Shoop:

and what are the differences?

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, there's a lot of automation and there's a lot of similarities. As an advertiser, your bidding and their CPC is in your spending money to get your placement where you want. But on our side it's a little bit more of the programmatic thing, so that is also automated. It's an automated real time auction. Some of the more fascinating elements of it is when you go to a website and you have all those ads that nobody likes to see that pop up and they pop up really fast.

Jeff Deren:

All of those ads that are populating and being served to you are happening because of a real time auction that's taking place in milliseconds and you've got a whole bunch of advertisers. You know basically bidding on those ad units in real time and the amount of brain power to put that all together and make those ads flow and be able to chase people around the Internet and get ads that are relevant to them so they engage in those and are meaningful to the advertiser. It's really fascinating how the technology works and I learn something every day about the technology that supports all this. So these ads.

Tim Shoop:

This is kind of an ad lib question here because I want to dive more into that. So these ads aren't just ads for businesses per se, the business when I refer to businesses, I mean the small businesses, medium size businesses, the enterprise like a computer or Apple or whoever. These are ads that are being generated within a feed right or within a news site that you might be reading. That may not be relevant specifically to the news site, but it is news about something else. Is that right?

Jeff Deren:

It's relevant to the user, not to the news site. Okay, so you could be on ESPN and you're getting a, you know, a steel chainsaw ad. That has nothing to do with sports, but you may have looked at a steel website at one point. Then they got you know they understand that with cookies and then they do some retargeting and chase you around and so those ads. That's when those ads just kind of follow you from site to site.

Tim Shoop:

So that explains why when, if I have to log on in my wife's machine, all I'm seeing is shoes and dresses. Yeah, ah, okay I got you.

Tim Schaffer:

So I got a question like I'm familiar with Google Ad Sense only because I've dealt with the YouTube for ages at this point, and but I'm specifically choosing what I want to be advertised, as is any of the users that are using Google AdSense. But what you're talking about is a whole different tech of just basically advertising to the user based off of what they previously searched and what they previously viewed. Is Google AdSense. You know anything about them integrating that, or is it always still just a separate user themselves?

Jeff Deren:

taking what they want. Google an ad exchange where this auction takes place, and Google Ad Manager, so that kind of sits out of AdSense, I believe.

Tim Shoop:

But Google drives this ecosystem right.

Jeff Deren:

Google is one of the main players Amazon, Microsoft and Amazon, yeah, so, and then you have these DSPs which are like on the demand side, that's the advertisers, and you can think so there's SSPs and DSPs. And then there's the auction in between Right, and so the SSPs on the supply side, that's basically look at it as like a real estate agent for these websites and the websites have property, real estate on their site which is an ad unit that they want to sell to advertisers. Okay, the DSPs work with all kinds of different advertisers, and they help facilitate these. You know targeted campaigns to hit the end user and they're willing. You know they go into this auction and the DSP acts as like a shopping assistant or buying assistant and says, okay, when this user hits this page, you know it's going to see this ad unit and we're willing to bid ten cents for that ad to populate. That real time auction happens, the highest bidder wins that ad and then that ad populates Makes sense.

Jeff Deren:

So Assertive Yield - Where are you - at the end? So we sit on the more of the publisher side. So we help publishers understand it's a total revenue management platform and we're we help publishers understand what ads are filling, what SSPs are, you know, winning. You know where the revenue is coming from. And then we also facilitate.

Jeff Deren:

We have a wrapper product which is basically the auctioneer that sits in the middle and tries to connect the dots and optimize that supply path to. It's called Assertive Yield because the whole goal is to squeeze out as much yield, as much revenue as possible. That's a great name. We've got a number of different tools that are all kind of packaged in to one product suite and it's one holistic solution for publishers, as from a business intelligence standpoint, from automated price flooring, so you can set floors on how you know how low you'll go for an ad to fill, and then we've got a whole bunch of neat features in terms of alerts and errors.

Jeff Deren:

That bugs are happening and are causing revenue loss. We can identify that, immediately, alert the publisher, they can get in there, they can fix it. So there's minimal, minimal revenue loss. So it's, it's basically a product suite that allows publishers their business side, their ad ops team, their editorial team, their dev team, their sales team, there's business intelligence for every department within a publisher and they can all kind of sit in that same platform and understand what's happening, what's working and what kind of strategic changes they can make on their end to squeeze out more revenue. So that's great.

Tim Shoop:

So I've seen a lot of you know third party. You know here as a business, you know we use a lot of third party platforms and I've seen a lot of third party data driven. You know companies for marketing automation and and these different things. As far as revenue attribution analytics involved with a sort of yield, what makes it unique and what makes Assertive Yield's kind of stance with that piece. What makes you guys unique?

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, so I found out about Assertive Yield. I just joined there back in June. I've only been there for about three months, but I've been working with them for about a year and a half with. My old job was at a company called AdRiser and we found out that Assertive Yield was very unique because AdRiser had a similar product. But about 80% of our clients, when it was all said and done we're using Assertive Yield for their revenue. Oh wow. And then revenue reporting, and so the uniqueness is one it's real time reporting. A lot of publishers are getting reports from the day before. We can provide real time revenue analytics, like within the minute. So it's very real time, hyper granular analytics. You can look down to the article level, the author level, the various ad units. We have like 300 different data points that you can slice and dice and nobody has that level of granularity in the industry with that type of real time report. So who is your?

Tim Shoop:

customer. Who is your ideal customer for Assertive Yield? Is it enterprise? Is it the small to medium business? Is it?

Jeff Deren:

So when Assertive Yield went to market, they quickly gobbled up all of the what's called content arbitrage publishers. These are the guys that are running the ads to sit below your article. That are like 50 wood stock photos you've never seen before. Those are arbitrage publishers.

Tim Shoop:

I'm going to confuse that. Ha, ha, ha. So you guys got paid when I looked at that, right, yeah, there are posts.

Jeff Deren:

They make a lot of money. They're highly, highly sophisticated publishers. A lot of those guys are actually out of Tel Aviv or the child stars, yeah, child stars, oh gosh. Stores closing Stores you didn't know were closed in 2023.

Tim Shoop:

What's up with those ideas?

Jeff Deren:

Well, you want evergreen content. It's all. You'll notice, it's all mystical content, that's what is 25, 50, you know whatever, and the idea behind that is to max the page views. You know, you click on that, you hit the article and then you'll have that giant next button. Yeah, and because they want you to click through all those different items in the list, because every time that happens those ads refresh and they're making money off every refresh.

Tim Shoop:

But the interesting thing is, where that next button is located is usually next to something else that you can accidentally click when you click it. Is that on purpose? It's kind of on purpose, I'm not on purpose.

Jeff Deren:

Google's about to crack down on that and so a lot of guys sort of are getting away from that. But yes, that was kind of the old school way of doing it. That happened to me, yeah.

Tim Shoop:

Got that, got that and it's happened to me, and I got targeted to for something I was clicking on.

Tim Schaffer:

And this is a very basic question. I'm sure it works this way, but you view it, there's some revenue, you click it. There's obviously way more. Where does it end? Does it end at the click or does it end the revenue go even further, based on?

Tim Shoop:

Well, I think it goes down a rabbit hole, right, because they want you to every time you click that next button and I'm guessing here, but I imagine you guys get paid every time you click the next and you're gathering data during the process, right?

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, you're getting the user data so you can retarget high value users and really sink into those articles.

Tim Schaffer:

I guess I'm curious if the purchase itself matters. Yeah.

Jeff Deren:

The purchase does matter because that's your cost per click and so you a lot of times you're spending 15 to 20 cents on a click. That charge goes to the publisher as the advert it's. The publisher is the advertiser, so it's getting charged 15 cents. Well, now it needs to make 15 cents on that user's session. So a lot of times what we saw in my AdRiser days if they click through about the 12th or 13th slide that's about the break even point they get to the 20th slide. Now you're making 20% margin. So the content arbitrage publishers are spending millions of dollars a month but they're doing it at 10 to 20% margins. Back in the day they're doing it at 40 to 50% margins. So they're essentially day trading internet traffic and using display ads to monetize the traffic.

Tim Shoop:

So that is amazing. So Assertive Yield. So how long has Assertive Yield been around? And just give me a brief introduction of how it got started.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, it's been around for about four years and it started this guy at Nils Lind, the founder, and he's an absolute genius. He's only 30 years old, he's over in the Netherlands, he's an engineer.

Tim Shoop:

Did you meet him on one of your trips? Did you know that? No?

Jeff Deren:

no, no, I just met him through. When we started working with him, I reached out to him and said you know, everybody I'd talk into is saying they're using Assertive Yield. So I got to see what this is all about and it made sense because the arbitrage publishers specifically need that hyper granular data to make decisions on where they're spending these millions of dollars and how they're spending these millions of dollars, to make sure that they're backing that out profitably. And Nils had created a product that was perfect for the arbitrage publishers. I was working at an agency that basically managed the campaigns for arbitrage publishers, so it was a nice strategic partnership that we had. But he was actually like a gamer and started a couple of blogs around gaming and so he was a publisher himself and he realized nobody is providing really good revenue attribution data in real time the average world. Well, Nils is one of the smartest fellows in ad tech. I can tell you that. Just extremely impressed - he blew you away and brought you in.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah. So AdRiser was acquired, which was great, and then the parent company kind of ran it into the ground and I saw the writing on the wall so I reached out Assertive Yield, said I love what you guys are doing. I knew the CRO and so he was like we'll bring you on board. So it was a really easy transition and it's a team within the ad tech space that I think has One of the best reputations and probably the highest likelihood to scale and potentially get acquired or expand. I don't know that the opportunities are endless right now, but the trajectory that assertive feels on is really exciting.

Tim Shoop:

So every time I feel the need to click on one of those go back ads, I need to call you and go. Dude, what are you doing?

Jeff Deren:

No, that is not Assertive Yield - that used to be me.

Tim Shoop:

Okay, that's right.

Jeff Deren:

All right. Assertive Yield is just the technology. We are simply a SaaS platform that's providing technology to the last publishers to make more strategic decisions and try it more rapidly.

Tim Shoop:

So let's stand on the ad tech space and stand on the Assertive Yield. I'm gonna ask you a couple more questions and then we'll do another tasting and then go in to something more fun. Well, you know, it's just as fun as the ad tech space, right and then the gator wrastling and beer drinking, and right, if you're out there, I'm sure you're thinking about ad tech, of the impacts of AI on modern ad tech and Assertive Yield's forefront role in it. Tell me.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, so a lot of ad ops are still done behind the scenes manually. There's ad ops professionals who are managing the day to day turning the dials behind the scenes, setting the price floors, looking for bugs, fixing bugs. They're just kind of hairs on fire all the time trying to make sure that things are running smoothly. And AI and machine learning we've got a lot of machine learning under the hood that really automates that process. But the nice thing about it is there's other players in the game, that kind of take over and almost take the jobs of those ad ops professionals. What Assertive Yield does is provide them tools to just make their jobs easier.

Jeff Deren:

We're not necessarily trying to just completely take over, because we do think that there still needs to be a team there. You know, there's always that human element that makes things better and a lot of the publishing world is still a little behind the times. I don't think most of the leadership in the publishing world would just turn it over to AI. So we want to give these folks the tools to really streamline their workflow, do their job for the best of their ability, get them promoted and we can continue developing those AI and machine learning to help automate these processes and workflows. But this is going to impact a lot of things in the digital media world and we're seeing it with chat, gpt and content creation and stuff like that. So we're using it. Yeah, it'll be really interesting to see how it influences, like, the editorial news industry, because editorial teams are pretty proud about their work and they want to maintain their journalists, to continue and all that stuff.

Tim Shoop:

But chat GPT can't. You know, have you used in chat GPT? Just write an article or write a paper for it. It's repetitive. It uses keywords and machine learning and all that stuff and what it creates is great to template out what you actually want to say. But it gets your brain started but it doesn't replace it, Not currently at least.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, no, I think a lot of the near future editorial use cases, for it will be just that. We'll kind of get a template, but we're still going to need editors to go in there, put a human voice behind it, make sure that it doesn't sound completely robotic like it typically does. So the state of digital media is really kind of in a wild transition, and it has been since the dawn of the internet. These publishing companies are just always trying to play catch up, and now you throw the AI into the mix and it's like oh man, you got to improvise what they need, what they're doing and where they need to go with it.

Jeff Deren:

Right, yeah, exactly. And then on top of all that, then you've got all the political discourse and the disinformation and all that that they're trying to sort through. So it's a really interesting industry and it's kind of a hot topic. Everybody talks about media and media bias, legacy media, the new media and all this, and being right in part of it and understanding how these businesses operate is really kind of neat. So I'm going down to a conference to actually fly out tomorrow and we'll be down there with all the big media companies and it's out of Miami and it's just neat to have conversations with these guys. I just want to understand what the news world is doing behind the scenes.

Tim Schaffer:

So I have a very big question I was just thinking about. Well, everything is shifting and it has been for a while. Obviously, video podcasting, all of this People aren't going to as many articles now on websites as they were even a few years ago. So what can be done with what you all are doing to sort of combat that?

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, it's a major challenge for a lot of media companies Because, I mean, a lot of the population is getting their news from Facebook and TikTok and Instagram, and so I think it's all real right, I mean, when it comes to reputable source make sure you're looking at the source, but they can still monetize a lot of that stuff.

Jeff Deren:

They can monetize on YouTube. I think a lot of short form content will start to be king and the long form content, from a written and video standpoint, will be less and less relevant or at least less and less leveraged to monetize.

Tim Schaffer:

I'm not seeing. Maybe you have to make more video ad to combat the video consumption.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, the CTV space is just absolutely exploding. So all of these conferences that we go to, ctv is always a hot button issue Because everybody's trying to figure it out and it's still kind of the wild west. And podcasting, I think, is another one, but I think there's a lot of trillions of people out.

Tim Shoop:

I mean, look at us, we're in this episode three and it should have been started years ago, but I don't know if that's going to take off. Yeah Right, how are we? Yeah, here we are, we're drinking beer on it. So yeah, man, that's the reason they drink beer Right Before we get into the next beer. And you, well, you're caught up now Before we get into the next beer. I've got one final question. So you've been in the AdTech space - I gathered from our conversation about seven years now, yeah, seven years. So seven or eight years. Tell me about your challenges that you've run into as you kind of went through into the industry, into the space, especially with Assertive Yield. I mean, I'm sure there's been challenges along the way. Tell me what that is. Let's try to keep it fairly short and just talk about that, because you're between me and the next beer.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah. So I'll simply put I came into Assertive Yield thinking I know exactly what their product does. Man, did I underestimate that? It is so complex, it's so impressive, and sometimes to a fault, because some of the publishers that we presented to they're like, wow, that is really cool, but we don't need all that. So we're actually simplifying based on the use case, the dashboards and everything, because publishers, they're breaking it apart. Yeah, we're just we're making it so it's really consumable for the end user and there's not a major learning curve.

Jeff Deren:

So you part of that development. I don't do the actual development. We said when we demo. We said, ok, what do you need for your dashboard? What metrics are really important to you? How do you want to use this? Because the complexity of the product is such that you can apply it to so many different use cases and every publisher has their own issues that they're trying to solve, and what we bring to the table is something that can solve most of those issues if it's used properly. And so we're just trying to make sure that we deliver it on a plate perfectly to where they can take it and run with it with minimal learning curve. So for me, the biggest challenge was wrapping my head around the entire product, because it is so complex and it's really impressive what they've done and you're still learning right, I mean MSP space.

Tim Shoop:

We're learning constantly because there's always a challenge, there's always something new, with the bad actors attacking American businesses and we've got to get ahead of it. And it's constant combat, constant combat.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, always evolving. Our product is already very complex, and Nils and the team of engineers are not slowing down. They're continuing to innovate and build and so once you think you kind of got it, they're like we got some more stuff coming right. So it's great to be a part of a team like that, because innovation is really key, and obviously the entire tech world, but ad tech in particular, is hyper competitive and there's a lot of smart cookies in the space, and so our team of engineers is in there to play ball. They're definitely competing.

Tim Shoop:

You know, I kind of like that the ad tech space is as complicated as it is, because when we're competing against other companies, I don't care what small business or what business medium, it doesn't matter what size when you're competing. If it was easy as clicking one button and going put me out, yeah, out there. Kind of like it was in the old days when you called the yellow pages and said I want a full page ad, not a quarter page, you know you could be them. It's a little different in this space. So it actually lets the small guys compete in a big guy's space.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, it's a great industry for the startup space. I mean you got two or three really smart guys who are Dallas, who know the space and know how to develop.

Tim Shoop:

They can put together a product that can quickly scale, so that product could be built around Nerds On Tap and make this the biggest podcast in the world. Just gotta find the right devs. I'm not looking all right. Well, let's find the right beer here out of these four beers. We are going to hit the next beer and then we're gonna dive into Jeff's personal passions of gator hunting, fishing and what we're here for today Brew, brew, brews, Suds, take it away.

Jeff Deren:

All right. Our next beer is the Dogfish Head SeaQuench Ale. Dogfish Head is a brewery out of Delaware. Sequinch Ale is a session sour mashup of a crisp gulch, a salty ghost and a tart burliner Weiss, brewed in sequence with black limes, sour lime juice and sea salt. Oh, cheers, cheers, here man.

Jeff Deren:

Don't take my beer until you're given it to me. He just said it's like a statement, so I'll start a session. No, I used to take my beer from you.

Tim Shoop:

Jeff's trying. He wanted to drink before we started and now he's trying to steal my beer away.

Tim Schaffer:

Hey, just to keep the show honest, this is the worst beer I think we've had out here.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah, I'm not a fan, but the reason we have. This is the sour right, so the reason we have this on here is because it's one of your favorite types. Why?

Jeff Deren:

To me, a sour is a good hot weather beer. It's not something I drink in the winter time, but it's got. Obviously it's sour, so it's got that citrusy element. I feel like it's a little bit more refreshing than an IPA when you're sitting out in 90-degree weather. What is your guarantee on sour? I actually used to drink this fairly regularly. It's my boat beer. I haven't had this in about two or three years, though. What's? Your adtech beer, my adtech beer.

Tim Schaffer:

I hope there's not one. No, my favorite is sour beers. That's also my favorite, but I don't know like I like the sour monkeys one of my favorites but there's a lot like a cherry. Sour is amazing. I love those, but I don't know. This is just lime. I guess I'm not liking the lime. Yeah.

Tim Shoop:

I think this one is overly. I mean, are they all this sour? I don't know.

Jeff Deren:

I kind of like the new IPA. So everybody's putting out two or three at the brewery you go there. No, I'm not.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, everybody has. I typically buy them from the store, but I always, you know, I enjoy sampling them when. I go to a brewery.

Tim Shoop:

So you know, I used to be a hard core IPA guy. You knew that. And as I got older because it's been a while right, we haven't really we were hanging around, you know, down in pints a decade ago. You realize it's been that long. It's crazy. Yeah, and I can hang to a degree. Why are you laughing? I can't hang. It's a nice good hang.

Tim Shoop:

But all right. So let's get into the next segment and we'll slowly sip this sour. But let's talk about your hobbies. You've got a unique hobby of gator hunting and then we'll go into fishing. But so what is at the top of your hobby list? Is it finding the right gator to catch, or is it catching a red fish in the bay, or going out offshore and catching the big fish?

Jeff Deren:

What do you like to do. I think you know, really, at the end of the day, it's just an excuse to get out on a boat, so even boating would be up there, but I'd probably put fishing's - You know, more often than not, when I'm on a boat and looking to catch something, it's not a gator, it's a fish I put fishing up there and I try to get out, and that was another big draw to Pensacola. I mean, it's world-class fishing here. Yeah, I love getting out of the water here and chasing after fish.

Jeff Deren:

But when we got back from Thailand, we went down to Gainesville and visited my cousins down there and he pulled out some gator skins and I was like where'd you get those? I'm going to swap them, I'll kill them. It's like, how long ago was this? That would have been 2013. Okay, and he was like if you want to do it, you know he just got to put in for a tag and come on down. So I put in for a tag and went down there and we got a 10 and a half foot gator on my first night out and I was hooked. So every year I've put in for tags ever since then and we go down and it's a roadie, though it's a lot of fun.

Tim Shoop:

So do you have any scars that a gator might have left?

Jeff Deren:

No, I have a couple, couple close calls. One was just this, most recent one, where we thought the gator was dead. It was not dead and I had the gator by the mouth and as I let it go, the mouth snaps open you know that's funny.

Tim Shoop:

I saw that video and I thought why is he doing that with a live gator? I didn't read the whole context there, that was in the text you sent me and I'm like, oh my God, he's freaking crazy. And then I showed it to a few people in here and everybody said he's coming on the show and that dude's crazy yeah that's not really gator safety.

Jeff Deren:

I'm gonna win, got it. You want to make sure they're dead before you grab by the mouth, but we hit them twice with a 44 mag bangstick and that thing was still alive. I mean those.

Tim Schaffer:

So what is the?

Jeff Deren:

process Well, so you can't really use I guess you can use bait. It's not something we do. You can't use a hook if you use bait. So what we do is we run up on them and when you run up on them and kind of scare them, they'll drop straight down and they'll sit at the bottom of the lake. It's a shallow lake. Are you just on a boat? Okay, smaller boat.

Jeff Deren:

And Newnan's Lake is where we hunt. You're awarded tags. You put in and apply for tags based on the actual lake that you're going to hunt. So we always hunt Newnan's Lake down in Gainsville, and it's a shallow lake full of gators. You run up on these things. It's a mud bottom so when they drop to the bottom to hide, it creates all these bubbles so you can see it's almost like somebody opened a can of soda and so you can see all these bubbles. You know there's a gator there.

Jeff Deren:

So then you pull out this big old treble hook on a little rope and start throwing it out there and trying to snag it. And then we've also got treble hooks with the weight on a spinning rod and you're trying to snag it. Once you hook up with that thing, hang on, because now, especially if it's the hand line you're essentially trying to pull for a fisherman boat. Yeah, so it's a little center console, a little 19 footer. So it's each one, it's each one, yes.

Jeff Deren:

Then you pull the boat. You know, if you get up near the shore it's all just swamped in cypress trees, and so you've got to try to keep them out of the trees. So it's a real process. And then they'll get worn down and they'll lay down and you try to get some more hooks in them to ensure that you don't lose them, because that skin is so tough that those hooks don't really always get embedded very well, and so you want to get multiple hooks in them. And then, when you finally get them worn out, you get them up to the boat and you've got a bang stick which is a 44-magnum discharge, and so when you hit it, it'll discharge and try to hit it right in the back of the head and sever the spine. But that didn't happen with this last gator. I was the one with the bang stick too.

Tim Shoop:

So you thought he was dead.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, because we had we put two 44-bags in this head and he was kind of stunned and so I've reached in and grabbed him, and then the eyes came open and, oh, come on, a little wink, and I thought this is not good.

Tim Shoop:

Is that, when you throw him back down in the water.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, because my cousin was like well, I probably need to put it on the water, you better let him go. Yeah, right, he was still hooked. So we threw him in and then we got him kind of repositioned and we put a third bullet in him.

Tim Shoop:

So when you had your hands around his mouth because I saw the video and you were cupping his mouth and his eyes open and he winked at you, I mean they've got some powerful jaws, so I mean they're stronger than your hands the way you had your hands on his mouth, I mean I'm sure that wasn't holding it shut.

Jeff Deren:

Well, from what I understand, the jaws are really powerful to shut, so to reopen they're not as powerful. But believe you me, I was squeezing as hard as I possibly could. Thanks, man.

Tim Shoop:

No, no, no, you know, I went on last time we were down near New Orleans. We went on a gator like a little boat tour and we got to see tons of gators down in the swamp. It was actually for my birthday either last year or the year before. I went with the kids and Kathleen and great day, it was fun and it was definitely. I was like, oh, I don't want to. You know, I don't want to have to be in that water because they were hundreds of yeah, yeah.

Jeff Deren:

We go out there, we'll see hundreds of them.

Tim Shoop:

It's wild. So what's that show that we can reference in here? Is it called Swamp? It's not Swamp Kings, it's Swamp, where they actually hunt gators on show. I've watched that show before. I found it kind of fascinating.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, they do what it's not going to do. I think they actually use guns in that show. They do, and so that's a whole different process and I think it depends lake to lake and probably state to state on how things are regulated. Maybe private property here in Florida you can use guns, I'm not sure. But on Newnan's lake. That's the way everybody does it. You'll see other gator hunters on the lake and then you'll hear. You'll see them run up on a gator and then you hear the big pop.

Tim Shoop:

In the other days I guess you guys can hear each other kind of yelling.

Jeff Deren:

Right, we try to keep a little distance. But yeah, from time to time we'll hear yelling, sometimes we'll hear some celebration and then you figure somebody's got a big one.

Jeff Deren:

Does that consider fishing or hunting?

Tim Shoop:

That's a good question.

Jeff Deren:

You're going to license or you just get a gator. It's not like gator hunting, you just get a gun, or bags, or how does that work?

Tim Shoop:

It's not like considered fishing and hunting if someone sees you.

Jeff Deren:

I think it falls under the hunting category. What is the license say? I think it says gator, Actually you might say gator trapping.

Jeff Deren:

Do they stock the lake in some way, or is this just that lake?

Jeff Deren:

No, it's just a perfect gator habitat because it's swamp all the way around. So there's about zero development, because the shoreline you can't develop by it, it's just shallow, cypress, swampy mess, and so it's a great habitat for them to thrive, and you have. I mean there's hundreds, if not thousands of that lake.

Tim Schaffer:

What about harpoons? could you? yeah?

Jeff Deren:

we do use a harpoon. When they sit down and they're stubborn, you get a bigger one and you've got hooked. But it's just sitting at the bottom of the lake and it doesn't want to come up and you don't want to risk losing one hook that you have in them. Then they start taking a harpoon to them and that's another way to kind of secure.

Tim Shoop:

I was going to ask you. We were talking about the boat club you're in. I was going to go on the boat and everything and I was actually going to see if I could hop on your boat one day. But I don't think I want to. I have a feeling we're going to end up in Brazilian waters hunting some erotic gator that you've been hunting for a decade and you brought me along as bait. I don't know.

Jeff Deren:

It's not a bad idea.

Tim Shoop:

I got you. Hey, we got to get into the last beer and we want to jump back into ad tech before we do. Is there anything else you want to embellish on your hobbies? Fishing? I mean, what do you you know?

Jeff Deren:

no, I'd say that maybe the one or the thing I'd recommend to anybody that loves fishing and wants a great experience is going over to Venice, louisiana, and fishing the whale rig. That's an incredible experience. I think it's a great tip of the boot. So not too far away from it. Yeah, that's incredible. They call it the fishing capital of the world when you're at the bass Marina. But it's really incredible and highly recommended to anybody that's a fishing enthusiast and hasn't been over there. Okay, Cool.

Tim Shoop:

So we've been having a nice conversation so far about gators, fish bait, beers and ad tech let's talk about, let's focus on the beers before we drink the last beer and then jump back into ad tech for a short stint, let's talk about the beers we've had today.

Tim Shoop:

Let's talk about your favorite brews and the parallels of these in comparison to the beers you've had on your travel, so your travels abroad.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah. So I mean the beers we've had today. Dale's Pale Ale is kind of right in line with what I have really kind of gravitated towards the last couple of years, similar to you that IPAs are good for like one or two, but I kind of lean towards the pale ale's.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah, we used to hang out together and we drank a lot of IPAs. Yes, and I think we did. Did we? I can't remember. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jeff Deren:

Anyway go ahead Well for that reason I don't think the IPAs are very good for your waistline.

Tim Shoop:

It's like eating a loaf of sourdough yeah.

Jeff Deren:

So, I've gravitated towards the lighter beer, especially in the summer. Honestly.

Tim Shoop:

pilsners and lagers are my go to.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, they love a good filter, yeah, and then like the heffeweizens and stuff like that. Some of those European beers are really good so for the weissbiers from Germany.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, and then winter time comes around and I really like porters and stouts, but those are kind of like a pale ale or an IPA where you only want one or two. I can't imagine drinking like more than two stouts. It's like literally two stouts for more than two. So you know, on the road when we were traveling, lagers were really kind of the staple beer. Every Latin American country in Southeast Asia, it seems like every country in the I guess for lack of other terms the developing world, has like their two or three national beers, kind of like their bones, like no light, and so we just usually stick to those. But there were some really really good ones. Cusco had a great beer in Peru, Cusco black, I believe Cusco black or Cusco dark, but it was kind of a stout and phenomenal. It's tough to find here, but you go to a good liquor store that has a big beer selection, like a total wine or something like that. They might have it and that's definitely worth checking out. That was one of my favorites.

Tim Shoop:

So one of my, one of my reps with one of my favorite companies, Opentext, she's from Brazil. So if you ever need anything, any good beer brought back from Brazil, let me know and I'll I'll, I'm sure she'll do it.

Jeff Deren:

They have one there called Antarctica. It's really, she's there.

Tim Shoop:

I think every month.

Jeff Deren:

So yeah, so the cool thing about Brazil is they love extremely cold beer, and so every beer cooler has a digital thermometer to show you how cold it is, and then they serve them in like these 24 or 32 ounce bottles with little tiny cups, but they put them in like this twosie to make sure, only drinking extremely cold beer. So you're just taking one or two drinks at a time, but you're pouring it from the bottle that's staying cold, and so you drink ice cold beer the entire time. You're there.

Tim Schaffer:

You say that and go over and learn the language. Can you still speak? Can you still know it pretty well.

Jeff Deren:

Portuguese not so much. I became like conversational in Portuguese after the month there. Erin, I actually took a trip over to Portugal a few years ago and I kind of pulled some out of my rear end a little bit and then made it work. But Spanish I'm pretty close to fluent because I've got the degree in Spanish and I've seen it several years in Latin America. I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen it.

Tim Shoop:

It's about a hundred years. See no, no, no, uno cerveza por favor? Yeah, I was right on the money. Hey, there you go, I got it. Let's hit the last beer. So this is a surprise beer. This takes me back about a decade, to a time when me and Jeff were drinking some brews every Wednesday at a local restaurant called the Fish House. We would meet other tech guys there, kind of pile out, talk, tests and pound pints, and so I was cracking a beer open as we speak.

Tim Shoop:

This next beer is a surprise beer that I brought on the show because it was kind of a milestone in our beer drinking from back then and I found Ever to drink it again. Now, me and my wife will actually, you know, sometimes buy it just to keep in the cooler and we'll split. We'll split one glass as we play darts, because it's a good, it's a really good beer. The problem is it's a very high alcohol content. We'll find out. And, jeff, I know you remember the Golden Monkey. I can't believe you brought the Golden Monkey. The Golden Monkey appeared today, buddy, and that's what's in your last glass.

Jeff Deren:

So I vividly remember the Monkey.

Tim Shoop:

I don't remember drinking the Monkey very well, yeah, now I don't either, until I got home and didn't have my credit card and lost my Ray Bans. So and that's a whole other story that I'm not going to get into here on this show but Suds take it away.

Jeff Deren:

All right, this is the Victory Brewing Company out of Pennsylvania, the Golden Monkey, belgian Triple. It's loaded with Belgian yeast, character of banana and clove, with an equally fruity body balance, with a light earthy hop character, savor notes of orange and spice, followed by a dry finish, 9.5% ABV. So it's a dry finish.

Jeff Deren:

See, that's just it about these IPAs. They could be a stock of 4% and then it could be 9%. Yeah, and if you don't know what the ABV is, they can think of it real quick and we didn't.

Tim Shoop:

When we first bought the Gold Monkey, I remember that You're like hey, there's this new beer, Just try it, You'll like this one. This one tastes good. And after we pounded three pints of it three or four pints of it, not knowing the alcohol content I think we all blacked out. I don't know what happened.

Jeff Deren:

It was not our average happy hour. Yeah, that's it and not.

Tim Shoop:

That was never ending well. So let's cap off today's show by finishing this beer and talking about the future of AdTech. Where's it going?

Jeff Deren:

That's a really good question. I think there's a lot of exciting things to come in AdTech. I think the digital media world in general is going to have a lot of challenges, like we mentioned, with all these different medias and distribution channels. I think a lot of it's going to go to video. I think a lot of it's going to go short form. AI is going to be a large contributor and there's also the AR and VR element. I mean you've got the metaverse, you've got virtual reality really starting to emerge. AR could be a thing. So when you're putting on your AR glasses and doing your work, through your glasses instead of a computer screen, people are going to figure out ways to survey ads and make money. Survey ads, my god.

Tim Shoop:

He hasn't even finished the whole math. He hasn't even finished the words.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, so it's going to be very, very interesting. There's a lot of creativity within the AdTech space. We were talking to a company out of Tel Aviv that runs ads inside video games and there's a lot of money just in that and it's a programmatic space, so there's an auction going on to serve an ad inside video games.

Tim Shoop:

You know that's fascinating. Now I know Zuckerberg has pulled back on his big commitment a little bit to virtual reality, but it's still there and it's only going to come to fruition. You know, I remember the first AI goggles I put on. They sucked, I mean, everything was pixelated. It's come a long way. It's still got a long way to go, and I guess my question is I mean his vision of the world? Is everybody sitting?

Tim Shoop:

around with.

Tim Shoop:

That's sad, but I'm sorry that's my take on it, sitting around with goggles on and basically interacting with each other at a virtual bar, which happens now. You just swipe right or left. I don't do that, you read about it. I would rather go out and socialize.

Jeff Deren:

I'd rather not have the head down mentality than we have today. But it is a reality.

Tim Shoop:

So, as opposed to head down reality, you're going to have a full virtual experience reality someday in the future. I think it's coming. How do ads and how does ad tech? I mean that I can only imagine the opportunity there for those ads to be on every billboard, every piece of furniture, every whatever in those virtual spaces. Yeah, there's probably going to be a lot of creative folks to figure out ways to.

Jeff Deren:

you know, right now we look at ads, display ads, and it's just a creative, you know. There's a picture of a chainsaw or a pair of shoes or a good looking gal or whatever it is that tries to draw our attention right. Right, I think with this virtual reality thing, there's going to be these fully immersive ad experiences that drive extreme engagement and are almost in a way that you don't even realize that you're engaging with an ad. It's more of an experience and there's a lot of brain power behind figuring out ways to kind of natively inject ads and get the user to engage in it without feeling like they're being served an ad, and virtual reality is going to be a medium that allows that to happen in really creative and probably, you know, incredible ways. That may or might not be good for the human psyche.

Tim Shoop:

Well, said no, I agree, I agree 100%.

Tim Schaffer:

So I have very well knowledge field particular and I'm telling you right now it's not going to be throwing on VR glasses. What it is going to be is AR, like you're saying. So it's going to be you're going on. Let's say just lens, like you're just wearing normal glasses written glasses, right, but they happen to pop stuff up on the screen.

Tim Shoop:

Oh, feeding you digital stuff, as your experience in the world not secluded you from the world, that's where like interacting with the world in an augmented way, as opposed to just blocking out the ground, you jumping into a virtual one. I think they're going to coexist. Yes, that's my thought on it. That's what's going to be going to be two different markets. I think it's going to depend on the user and I think the augmented way, what Microsoft has done with HoloLens is unreal in terms of what you can do in engineering and design and things like that, as opposed to Zuckerberg's fun little pet project of jumping into a fully immersive world. So it's two different, two different worlds.

Tim Shoop:

We're going to cap the show off with some curated questions for Jeff, don't look at my screen. I don't need to know the questions, but I do want you guys to down your beers before we ask these questions, if you don't mind, and we're going to jump into it. So, jeff, if you have a time machine, but they only use it one time, so you won't be able to come back. You won't be able to go anywhere else. You can only use it once. Where and when would you go? Can't come back. Yes, and we can't have Dead Space on this show, so you need to answer it right now, all right?

Jeff Deren:

I'm going. I think I would go probably back to about 2001 and get into the ad tech space before the ad tech space really took off, because the guys that got in early and started especially like some of these content art guys they were making insane margins and sane money. There's a lot of companies that really hit it big and having an understanding of how big and important the internet and the digital media space would be in 2001 would certainly be a life changer today.

Tim Shoop:

Cool Suds, I'm going to direct that same question at you. I'm going to take you by surprise, because he's usually a man of very few words. If you have a time machine, you can only use it once. Where and when would you go?

Jeff Deren:

So I'd still be this age, I'd still be in the 40s, like I'd just be traveling back in time.

Tim Schaffer:

Yes, you're yourself, I would probably go.

Tim Shoop:

What did you talk here about?

Jeff Deren:

Well, you're talking about going back in time. I would probably go back.

Tim Shoop:

Well, I just said, ladies and gentlemen, he's a man of very few words. We took him off guard with this. He's off camera for a reason. Go ahead, Suds.

Jeff Deren:

I'd probably go back early 80s, mid 80s to experience that time. I definitely want to go back too far where I have to farm or do something like that. So I'm not going back to the middle age or something I want to be, I think, the early 80s. So you want to go back as an adult and not like a little child, so I knew Suds back then.

Tim Shoop:

So you want to go back to wearing those parachute pants that you love so much Hammer time.

Jeff Deren:

That was the 90s Right.

Jeff Deren:

Yeah, 80s were those dork shorts.

Tim Schaffer:

Now, why is that he had to?

Tim Shoop:

go on monkey. That's why he's actually talking.

Tim Schaffer:

What are you doing in the 80s? Why it's a fun time for people Now.

Tim Shoop:

I think I had a pair of hot pink shorts, jay-z, my shirt. I had this ripped up shirt that I wore all the time and my vans were my precious one pair of vans that. I mail ordered and only took eight weeks to come in because you had to fill out a form. I swear to God, I have a whole closet of vans now. I order them online, I test them, order them and have them specially made. I put my top around the lightning vans.

Tim Shoop:

1985 or 1986, I ordered my first pair of vans and I had to fill a form out and mail it in and I waited by the mailbox every day to check if my vans would arrive.

Jeff Deren:

And you can't go back.

Tim Shoop:

I think with palm trees on one side. It was black and white, checkered board on the sides, hot pink and white in the front, and I wore holes in three of the toes. Skateboarding and BMXing, and that was my life. A lot of neon colors in these. Yeah, we loved them. We needed to go back to that man. Come on Now parachute pants I never wore, but those don't need to come back. Yeah, they don't need to come back. The big hair now, that doesn't need to come back. There's a big joke about that. It was. Every girl back then had a can of aqua net on their dresser. So, Jeff, your travel abroad. What's the best beer you've had overseas?

Tim Schaffer:

Before you answer. Sorry, I'm going to put in If I had to travel back in time, just so I had an answer. Here I'm easily going back and buying about a thousand bitcoins.

Jeff Deren:

That's not a bad answer.

Tim Schaffer:

Yeah, that's a good answer Plus an 80 grand right now, something like that yeah, you just go to the end of one. Oh yeah, yeah, I'd be 15 years or so.

Jeff Deren:

Oh, I'm sorry.

Jeff Deren:

I didn't ask you.

Tim Schaffer:

It's cool, but that is definitely the definitive answer, Anyway you know what?

Tim Shoop:

We're all going back in the past. No, instead of the future, because it's unpredictable. Yeah, we all went back in the past. Me personally, I would go back in the past with all the knowledge that I've gained in my 53 years yes, I'm that old, 53 years of being on this earth when I was a teenager, in my point, I knew nothing. I knew nothing. And if I could take all the wisdom I know now and go back, I would be definitely be wealthy and I wouldn't have had to work as hard. But I think to a degree I would miss that, because I wake up in the middle of the night with ideas and I scribble them down and I don't think that's ever going to stop. I don't care how old I am, but going back with the wisdom and being a little smarter and making a few better choices, like now drinking the Golden Monkey, hey, hey, hey, Jeff, I think I would have been like no, no, no, no.

Tim Shoop:

We don't need to drink that. You're going to order one. Why not? Well, because I went back in time and this is not what you want to drink, so sorry. That's the best beer you've tasted overseas. I put that Cusco black up there and that would be one of them. And where is that from? Again, Peru. Ok, that's a really good beer. Everybody go to Peru and drink the Cusco black.

Tim Schaffer:

My favorite beer is that sour version of the Golden Monkey. Instead of Golden Monkey, it's sour monkey. If you haven't done it, you should have. Yeah.

Tim Shoop:

I'll never try that. You told me the other day your favorite beer was Stella.

Tim Schaffer:

No, I'm saying if I go to a bar and I'm picking what they would have on draft, they usually will have a Stella and that's what I'm picking In terms of like.

Tim Shoop:

No, we would be there and such, your favorite beer is a box of wine. What? See what the Golden Monkey does, folks. So I have one final question for you, Jeff, and this is a big one. Don't look at my screen. You can't prep yourself for my question. I need you to think, I need you to clear your mind and think, and I want you to explain ad tech to someone from a different century. How would you describe it? Now? You explained it to us With all these great terms that we're already aware of in today's world of advertising and world tech and AI, but they're not going to know what AI is.

Jeff Deren:

They're not going to know what adtech is they're not going to know what I mean.

Tim Shoop:

they each tech. Back then it was just a different style and the default the default tech. Explain ad tech to someone in the 16th century.

Jeff Deren:

Good luck. I would probably tell them. Imagine walking outside and every horse carriage that goes by has an advertisement for a business that's catered exactly to your interests. That's how ad tech works.

Tim Shoop:

All right, let's lock him up and use his knowledge.

Tim Schaffer:

That's not about ads, Right? What's that? That's a great ad Store, ad George General. That's going to be right here.

Tim Shoop:

Jeff, thank you so much for sharing your captivating journey, both broad, personally and professionally. I love hearing about ad tech. I've learned a lot today. I love hearing about how you kill a gator or don't kill a gator and hold his mouth and realize he's awak e. So I appreciate you coming on the show man. Thanks so much for having me. It was a pleasure. All right, have fun. I think we should run down the store and grab another six pack of monkey. I'm in.

Jeff Deren:

All right, you guys are in line.

Tim Shoop:

Thanks folks. Thanks for joining Nerds on Tap, thanks for coming in and watching us today. Another thanks to Jeff Deren for being on the show and telling us about ad tech and what it brings to you and what it's going to do in the future, and talking about Assertive Yield and the company that he's with. We really appreciate it Forward to the next show.

Tim Shoop:

I hope you look forward to the next show of Nerds on Tap. This is only episode three. Subscribe now, because this show is going to be on your radar as we grow. Bring it later. Cheers my fellow nerds and beer lovers. Stay tuned for more Nerds on Tap. Oh, and one more thing Help us spread the nerdy love and the love for grape brews by sharing this podcast with your friends, colleagues and fellow beer enthusiasts. Let's build a community that embraces curiosity, innovation and the enjoyment of a cold one.

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